SBP 089: Future Demand, Not Demand Generation. With James Hurman.

Welcome to another episode of the Sleeping Barber Podcast! Join Marc and Vassilis as they dive into the world of marketing effectiveness with special guest James Hurman. James, the founder of Previously Unavailable and the Masters of Advertising Effectiveness program, shares his deep insights into the startup ecosystem, the importance of balancing customer acquisition costs (CAC) with brand awareness, and the concept of future demand. This episode is packed with valuable knowledge on how to build sustainable marketing strategies that drive long-term success. Enjoy the show! Our Guest: James Hurman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameshurman/ Founder Previously Unavailable - Innovation Studio Founder & Programme Director of the Masters of Advertising Effectiveness course with WARC Co-founder of Tracksuit - a SaaS brand health tracking system Co-author with Peter Field on the Cannes Lions / WARC publication called Creative Effectiveness Ladder Author of a new book for startups called Future Demand and The Case for Creativity Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠ Get in touch with our hosts: Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠ Timestamps: 0:00 - Episode Introduction 3:28 –the trouble with CAC & the startup playbook 6:39 – why future demand (brand building) is important for startups 10:15 – is demand generation possible 15:04 – Why CAC gets worse without brand awareness 17:30 – Split budgets between brand and performance marketing 19:00 – James’ journey into effectiveness 24:14 – What is effectiveness? 26:35 – The Creative Effectiveness ladder 32:35 – Do ads wear out or wear in? 37:10 – The customer need behind Tracksuit’s brand health tracking SaaS 41:10 – Lessons for early-stage startups 44:53 – The power of industry expertise inside a startup 47:58 – Building Effectiveness knowledge inside companies 51:15 – Much of what marketers are taught is wrong 53:30 – Marketing evidence needs to wear in 54:15 – how to learn more about James 55:09 - Post Pod with V and Marc Background Research & Literature: James on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameshurman/ Tracksuit https://www.gotracksuit.com/us Previously Unavailable https://www.previously.co/ Creative Effectiveness Ladder https://www.lionscreativity.com/creative-effectiveness-ladder The Principle of Future Demand https://www.previously.co/projects/the-principle-of-future-demand