The Problem of Narcissist Pastors

Guest Bios Show Transcript They’re wolves in sheep’s clothing—pastors who are narcissists, who claim to be serving God but are really serving themselves, and leaving a path of devastation in their wake. In this episode of The Roys Report, Chuck DeGroat —a professor, clinical therapist, and author of the book, When Narcissism Comes to Church — joins Julie for an enlightening discussion.  DeGroat offers keen insights on how to identify narcissist pastors, as well as the church systems that protect them. He also describes the many faces of narcissism, explaining how narcissism manifests itself differently in various Enneagram personality types. And unlike many of his therapist peers, DeGroat explains why he believes some narcissists can be healed of their condition.  This Weeks Guests Dr. Chuck DeGroat Chuck DeGroat (LPC, PhD) is professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, and senior fellow at Newbigin House of Studies in San Francisco. He served as a pastor at churches in Orlando and San Francisco and founded two church-based counseling centers. He is a licensed therapist, spiritual director, and the author of Toughest People to Love and Wholeheartedness. Show Transcript Note: This transcript has been edited slightly for continuity. JULIE ROYS:  They’re wolves in sheep’s clothing. Pastors who are narcissists who claim to be serving God but are really serving themselves and leaving a path of devastation in their wake. Welcome to The Roys Report—a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And today I’m going to be talking about an extremely serious problem in the church—the problem of narcissism. And joining me will be Chuck DeGroat—a professor, clinical therapist and author of the book, When Narcissism Comes to Church. But before I talk to Chuck, I just want to say a brief word about the crisis we’re in concerning the coronavirus pandemic. And I don’t think we’ve ever seen anything like this. I know I haven’t. And I’m glad that churches and Christian institutions are taking this seriously. Many are closing and encouraging people to just stay home. I think that’s a wise word right now, but I think it’s hard, isn’t it, as Christians, to practice something called social distancing, right? I mean, we want to love people and be near them. But one way to love our neighbor, right now, is to not infect our neighbor or be infected by our neighbor. So I think it’s wise that we stay home. And hey, you can listen to podcasts maybe or get caught up on ones that you’ve missed. But here’s what I’m noticing. Families are being forced to spend time together during this crisis. We’re doing church at home, right, as our churches are live streaming their services? Or we’re doing meals at home as restaurants are closing. And I know our family, in the past few days, have worshipped and prayed more together than we probably had in the entire month prior to this whole crisis. So friends, I really think that we need to embrace this crisis as an opportunity to grow together as families. I mean, obviously Satan wants to push us apart and get us to really come down on each other. And you know how sometimes too close a quarters can be a problem. But I think what God wants us to do is grow together. And so I really encourage you. Do family devotions, gather for meals, draw  together closer as a family during this time. But it’s not only an opportunity, I think, for our families to come together, I think our communities can come together as well. I got this idea from our pastor. His family put a note in the mailboxes of their neighbors. And the note just said something simple like, “Hey, we know t