American Fascism: Then and Now

TALKING POLITICS - A podcast by David Runciman and Catherine Carr

Categories:

David and Helen talk with historian Sarah Churchwell about the origins, uses and abuses of the idea of American fascism. Where does American fascism come from? Does it follow a European model or is it something exceptional? What role do white supremacy and anti-Semitism play in its development? How close has it got to power? Plus we ask the big question for now: Does it make sense to call Trump a fascist? Talking Points:  Trump’s decision to hold a rally in Tulsa on 19 June is an act of clear provocation to African Americans, especially at this moment.  - 19 June 1865 was the day the last slaves were emancipated, two years after the Emancipation Proclamation. - The symbolic deferral, the fact that white people were actively denying black people full rights and citizenship, is what Juneteenth came to represent.  - Tulsa is where the worst race riot in American history occurred in 1921. The white population of Tulsa descended on a thriving black community. - The Trump campaign was forced to move the rally a day. It will happen on 20 June. Is fascism the right word for what has happened—and is happening in America?  - The second Klan rose between 1915 and 1922. - The commentariat at the time pointed to Mussolini and fascism to explain the Klan’s resurgence. - Hitler looked at the US and took aspects, including the legal institutionalisation of white supremacy, especially in the South, as an inspiration.  - But there is something quite specific about European fascism in the 1920s that has to do with the fallout of the First World War. Fascism is ultra-nationalism. It has to be different in every country: it’s highly situational, highly historicized.  - It can be hard to pin down because each iteration takes its own form. - Is it historically accurate to call the present moment fascist? Is it useful? - Is calling Trump a fascist too comforting? Does it keep us from seeing the reasons why he won? - Is it useful to think about American nativist, conspiratorial, racist, xenophobic, anti-semitic gorups as being recognizably fascist going back in time?  Mentioned in this Episode:  - Sarah and TP American Histories on the 15th and the 19th amendment - Robert Paxton, The Anatomy of Fascism - Philip Roth, The Plot Against America - Sinclair Lewis, It Can’t Happen Here - Jonathan Shanin on Tom Cotton’s op ed Further Learning:  - Sarah on TP: America First?  - Sarah on the dark history of America First - Sarah’s book, Behold America - More on Juneteenth - More on Tulsa  - Jason Stanley, How Fascism Works And as ever, recommended reading curated by our friends at the LRB can be found here: lrb.co.uk/talking  


See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Visit the podcast's native language site